Chiren - The Leader of the Western Forces in WWIII (who is he?)

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Chiren - The Leader of the Western Forces in WWIII

The great Chyren will be the Chief of the World,
after "Plus oultre" loved, feared and dreaded.
His fame and praise go beyond the heavens
and he will be greatly satisfied with the sole title of victor - VI.70

Of Trojan blood he will be born with a German heart
and will rise to a very great power.
He will drive out the foreign, Arabic nation
and return the Church to her early glory - V.74

Selin king, Italy peaceful, kingdoms
united by the Christian King of the World.
When he dies he will want to lie in Blois territory,
having chased the pirates from the sea - IV.77

The great man led captive from a foreign land,
chained in gold, offered to King CHYREN.
He who in Ausonia, Milan will lose the war
and all his army put to fire and sword - IV.34

The king of Europe will come like a griffon,
accompanied by those of the North;
he will lead a great troop of red and white,
they will go against the king of Babylon - X.80

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http://ww-iii.tripod.com

Within what I call the "Standard Picture" of events (we anticipate) there is a man who is labeled "Chiren" or "Chyren" that leads the forces of the West to victory over the Eastern forces including the Muslims.  

All we know is that "someone" shows up AFTER the war has started and assumes this role.  Aside from some general background descriptions (German Heart, Trojan Blood, etc) we know little about who he is.

In many ways Chiren is more important than Mabus who might just be associated with an event around the time of the beginning of the war.  

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Hindu perspectives on Chiren:

Go here:

http://ww-iii.tripod.com/hindu.htm

A sample from the link:

Thus, the wars of Kalki came to an end with a defeat and a peace treaty that ended the WW-III. III[14] describes that after the war, Kalki handed over various portions of his liberated lands to various kings who were his allies and Satya Yuga (Age of Truth) was established on the Earth. Kalki himself stayed in Shambhala with his two wives, Padma and Roma. Finaly, III[19] describes the death of Kalki and his ascension to the heaven.

VIII.54 of Nostradamus also describes a marriage treaty by Chiren Selin, the equivalent of Kalki -

Under the colour of the marriage treaty,
a magnanimous act by the 'Chyren Selin' :
St. Quintin and Arras recovered on the journey;
By the Spanish a second butcher's bench is made. - VIII.54

Even though Kalki is considered as the God incarnate, his human qualities have been highlighted all through the text. He had his share of losses in battles and ups and downs, which are consistent with any war in the modern times where the warring forces are equally matched and possess weapons of mass destruction. Chyren, described by Nostradamus seems to have lost in some battles too :

The great man led captive from a foreign land,
chained in gold, offered to King CHYREN :
He who in Ausonia, Milan, will lose the war
and all his army put to fire and sword. Nostradamus, IV.34

But the fact that Kalki is a good strategist and an excellent negotiator is quite apparent from the texts as well as the fact that he has some qualities which make him the undisputed leader of the allied forces even though he is initially not even the "King" of his own country. At the most, he is a high ranking Army officer with some very exceptional qualities, whose stature only grows as events unfold, such that he is unanimously accepted as the "King of the World" and as a Messiah by all religions.

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Basically the "Standard Picture" (as I call it) website supports prophecies from multiple sources including Hindu.

[jako]

This is the second Quatrain referring to  Chyren
Century 6- 27.
Dedans les isles de cinq fleuues à vn,
Par le croissant du grand Chyren Selin :
Par les bruynes de l'air fureur de l'vn,
Six eschappez, cachez fardeaux de lyn.
Within the Isles of five rivers to one, Through the expansion of the great 'Chyren Selin': Through the drizzles in the air the fury of one, Six escaped, hidden bundles of flax.
http://www.prophet666.com/2010/02/nostradamus-war-in-punjab.html

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Century 6 - Quatrain 27

Within the Isles of five rivers to one,
Through the expansion of the great "Chyren Selin":
Through the drizzles in the air the fury of one,
Six escaped, hidden bundles of flax.

I just don't know.  Where are the "Isles of five rivers"?

Seems to me that the place has to be identified first without resorting to bizarre tangents.   There is a quatrain that talks about the "two rivers" which in context means Iraq. (Mesopotamia)  I'm sure that there is some place in Europe that Nostradamus would have known about where five rivers are all converging in one area.  Possibly an area like Holland because they have all those dikes that move water around.

Where do five rivers converge into one exit point?

Chiren is likely the correct person identified here.  Selin means "Wind-still" so maybe there is some connection to the ancient use of windmills in Holland? (unlikely)  However, it's probably more of a character meaning so the "stillness" probably refers to the stubburn nature of Chiren.  He has been described elsewhere as a focused personality.  (so it might have been added as a character association)

It might be a "verb" and not a "noun" in context.

So one might say:

"Stubburn Leader"

"Stubburn King"

"Selin King"

"Selin Chiren"

"Selin Chyren"

"Chyren Selin"

I've never seen much work done on trying to understand this one.

Why do I get the feeling you are going to say that Nostradamus was talking about some place in India?

(we all tend to want to think our own world was important in the mind of Nostradamus even when it probably was not)

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Sheffield England?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Sheffield

"Sheffield is the most geographically diverse city in England[1]. The city nestles in a natural amphitheatre created by a number of hills and the confluence of five rivers: Don, Sheaf, Rivelin, Loxley and Porter. As such, much of the city is built on hillsides, with views into the city centre or out to the countryside. The city is roughly one third urban, one third rural and one third in the Peak District. At its lowest point the city stands just 29 metres above sea level at Blackburn Meadows on the Rotherham border, rising up to over 500 m in some parts of the city to a peak of 548m at High Stones on the Derbyshire border. However, 89% of the housing in the city is between 100 and 200 metres above sea level."

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Thinking of the Quatrain:

"Through the drizzles in the air the fury of one,"

...this part of England fits the description of a place with constant drizzle.  It's a very moist land and near sea level.  The "fury" is likely the forces following Chiren's command that are hunting down Muslim terrorists.  "Fury of one" would then refer to the forceful direction of Chiren himself.

Nostradamus would likely have known about places in England.

"Isles" is a common term used in England as well which is likely another clue.  (British Isles)

Isle means "An island, especially a small one".   England is an island nation.


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In Summary...  I'd guess that Chiren leads Western forces into England in WWIII and six important Muslim terrorists somehow find a way to elude Chiren by hiding in some "bundles of flax" whatever that might be.

So Nostradamus is talking about Muslims that get away despite the best efforts of the Western forces to catch them.  (sort of like how Osama Bin Laden got away at Tora Bora in Afghanistan)

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The quatrain will only make sense in the middle of WWIII when Chiren is in the process of trying to round up all the Muslim terrorists in England. (so it has almost no relevance to our own time)  People will likely NEVER figure this out before it happens!!!!  But once it does happen it will be easy to realize that it did happen.

So we wait for six Muslim terrorists to be chased by Chiren in Sheffield England during WWIII. (but they escape)

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Who is he? Sarkozy?

[Ecosse]

Sarkozy and the rest of the western leaders have more in common with the Wiemar Republic, their time is up

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Not if you believe that Nostradamus predicts the future.

In Nostradamus it is Sarkozy (Chiren) and the Western forces that defeat (or ally with) the Eastern forces of Russia, China and the terrorist Muslims.  (however it might not actually be Sarkozy but instead someone else)

Maybe Nostradamus is full of crap and things don't go this way, but if you are honest with the propechies you have a hard time arriving at any other conclusion.

This isn't to say that WWIII is a lot of fun.  America and Russia nearly wipe each other off the map with nuclear weapons and Europe is devastated too, but in the end Chiren is given the "sole title of victor" over all.  

The Muslim terrorists lose.

The great Chyren will be the Chief of the World,
after "Plus oultre" loved, feared and dreaded.
His fame and praise go beyond the heavens
and he will be greatly satisfied with the sole title of victor - VI.70

[Ecosse]

If a force is strong enough to go through Europe and hold it for 14 years Sarkozy must be a very lucky chap to live that long.

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It's not clear that the radical Muslims actually "hold" Europe, but instead aren't simply "terrorizing" Europe all that time.  Given the description of Chiren chasing down and then putting in prison the radical Muslims I tend to think it's a case where chaos rules.

I would be VERY DOUBTFUL that 10% or less of the population of Europe (the Muslims) can actually dominate and control the full population.

But terrorism can in effect "seem like" they are in control.  Look at Iraq or Afghanistan, they have dealt with a tiny percentage of disciplined radical Muslims that were able to frustrate and tie up a much larger force.

Chiren will likely force changes in the laws of Europe to crack down on the Muslims that are radicalized.  The entire process could take 14 years very easily.  Throw in some nuclear blackmail and you can see how chaotic the situation could be.

America has been fighting in Afghanistan since 2002, so that's 9 years already and that's just one small country.

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An extremely small percentage of a population driven by radical ideas can create chaos for years.

Nostradamus describes a chaotic WWIII where it's difficult to know what is going on. (which matches the concept of terrorism as a warfare technique)

Don't forget that the use of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons are expected.  There is going to be so much death and destruction that basic systems will break down.  While all the basic services we are used to in modern life are failing the terrorists are just piling on top of all of this with their random destruction.  The combined effect of system failure and terrorism creates an outcome that magnifies things for the worse.

Chiren approaches the situation with a "German Heart" and stubbornly (Selin - "Still Wind") tracks down the radical Muslims and places them in prison.  He allows the Muslim children to remain free, but those radical Muslims stay in prison for life.

Eventually things settle down, but not before Chiren and the Western forces go down to the middle east and force them to accept peace.

In the end Chiren is given the sole title of victor.  (but it's a long grinding path to get there)

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As for Sarkozy...  yes...  if too much time goes by he might be too old to complete the prophecy.  However, let's not forget that Chiren dies of natural causes shortly after the end of WWIII, so he might be fairly old when it all happens.  Sarkozy was born in 1955, so let's assume he can live to see 75 years old which would get him to 2030 which is within the expectation.  Let's assume he lives two years after the end of the war so we get: 2030 - 14 - 2 = 2014 which is not unrealistic for the start of WWIII.

I guess we will see...

[Ecosse]

From my reading it may start off as pirate ventures but as Nostradamus seems to hold the western leaders at fault for their negligence and incompetence (sounds right to me) Which govt ever held power after an invasion?
118.  Because of Gallic (French) discord and negligence, a passage
will be opened to Mohamet: The land and sea of Siena will be soaked in blood, and the Phocaean port 3 covered with sails and ships.

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All you have to do is look at Europe now with their socialist governments and their weak immigration policies and it's obvious that they have been creating an opening for trouble.

Europe will be heading towards more Austerity and stiffer immigration policies in the future, but most of the damage has already been done.

We need to remember that Chiren is there to RESTORE the traditions of Europe and bring it back to something great.  Europe at the moment is nearing rock bottom. (if not at rock bottom)

Chiren is an optimistic figure because he's sort of the opposite of anything socialistic or soft.

(Chiren is a stubborn leader with Catholic values)

Don't judge the future by present trends.

Nostradamus says things reverse.

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It's funny to think that in a social / political sense Nostradamus is actually projecting an OPTIMISTIC future because he's saying that Europe returns to it's traditions.  WWIII is terrible of course, but the people will become better people as a result of it. This is often the case when humans suffer, they become better people afterwards.

Few people recognize that Nostradamus paints an optimistic picture for Europe. (afterwards)

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All the major countries survive WWIII.  Russia survives.  America survives.  Europe survives and is victorous as a leader of the war.  Even the middle east that is beaten and battered during the war has survivors.  And in Europe the children of Muslim women are allowed freedom, so there is no new Holocaust where the Europeans put all the Muslims into ovens like they did with the Jews in WWII.  This time the minority population is treated with love.  It has a kind of happy ending.

The war eventually ends and peace returns...  but years later wars start up again.

Humanity is not wiped off the earth at any time in Nostradamus... there is no "End of the World" in his prophecies...

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What I'm writing could be dissapointing for many people who read Nostradamus in hopes of finding something awful.  Many want the world to end, or they want Jews to die or Europeans to die or Muslims to die, and there are deaths in WWIII, but no one is wiped off the face of the earth.  A lot of people just don't want to hear that things don't hit the extremes they hope for.  In a world with 6 billion people you can lose 3-5 billion and still populate the earth rather easily.  We have a massive surplus of humanity that will need to be trimmed back, but the future will continue on after.

[Ecosse]

"the king of Babylon" Now a debatable point, but on the evidence given  Babylon = USA

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I'd say the probability of that is about 1%.

"King of Babylon" is going to mean the obvious...  some leader in the Middle East.  It might be Iran or it could be Iraq.  We know that the Muslims have internal strife (Sunni vs Shiite) and Nostradamus talks about why the Muslims in the middle east fail in the Letter to Henry:

"And all these Eastern Kings will be chased, overthrown and exterminated, but not altogether, by means of the forces of the Kings of the North, and because of the drawing near of our age through the three secretly united in the search for death, treacherously laying traps for one another."

I've seen people horribly mangle the meaning of this paragraph that doesn't seem to translate well to english.  What Nostradamus is saying that the "two brothers" (America and Russia who are the Kings of the North) along with Chiren will go after the middle east and their efforts have a significant impact, but it's the internal differences between Iraq and Iran over their creeds (Sunni vs Shiite) that ultimately defeats them from the inside.  It's also interesting that Nostradamus talks of "three secretly united in the search for death".  The "secretly united in the search for death" part is obvious...  muslims like to blow themselves up in their murder / suicide bombings in order to get to heaven.  The "three" part means that there are three creeds to consider...  Iran (Persian), Iraq, Kurds, Saudi Arabia...  it's hard to say which three dominant muslim groups emerge in the war.  I'd guess Sunni, Shiite and Kurd is the easy answer, but it could be something else.  There are also various strains of Al Qaeda and I wouldn't be surprised if a few more factions emerge.  Now Egypt is becoming destabilized, maybe there is a faction that comes from there...  I just don't know.

Not only do the Muslim terrorists lose in Europe, but the Muslim countries in the middle east are unable to sustain unity in the face of the Western onslaught.

If anyone is Muslim and wants jihad against the West they are going to HATE Nostradamus because he basically calls them the "losers" in this war.

This is why I keep reminding people how optimistic Nostradamus really is...  he's a French Catholic Jew that sees his own preferred winner at the end of WWIII. (Chiren)  Nostradamus favors the West because he comes from the Christian West.  His Jewishness seems to not be in as much conflict with Catholicism as we see things today.  Back in those times there was no Zionism and so Jews integrated themselves into whatever culture they existed within.  One wonders if Nostradamus would support or oppose Israel today...  I would suspect he would probably support the idea of a Jewish state, but I can also see him going the other way.  It's inconclusive in my mind.